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Shine HQ :: The World of RP :: Gate to the World of Ninja Roleplay :: Getting Started: Guides and Information
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Re: Guide: Elements
by DragonKnight Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:13 am
If we are to put specializations like these, we should put them for all types of players, to work more like a class. The one you have now feels like it punishes people more than rewards their playstyle. It should be more like this:
Still not sure why metal and magnet are individual elements. Isn't metal earth too? How is it used? Can't magnetic properties be utilised through lightning? Why have two separate elements for it?
- Specializations:
Jack of all Trades: Proficient in ninjutsu, taijutsu and genjutsu this character leans on using a clever combination of the three to defeat his enemies. He might be considered an average shinobi by some, but his reliance on all three styles have honed his soul to overwhelming amounts. He possesses A*Rank amount of chakra extra where A=20 for example. He must have at least 20% jutsus of each style to be classified as such.
Ninjutsu specialist: This type of character focuses on his ninjutsu skills over all else. As such he has had extensive training with the elements and can have an additional advanced or basic element he wants without the need for a bloodline and maybe some extra chakra to go along, less than the jack though.
Genjutsu specialist: This type of character focuses on his genjutsu abilities more than anything. His reliance on such techniques has crippled his use of ninjutsu techniques and may only use them up to C rank for example while he's unable physically to do any taijutsu. His reliance on these techniques has gifted him with an extraordinary ability. He can at will alter the nature of his genjutsus to become reality. He can use such mechanics on appropriate genjutsu by using A*(Rank of jutsu) chakra extra where A=20 for example.
Taijutsu specialist: The same as yours
Taijutsu/Ninjutsu Specialist: This type of user has focused extensively on these two styles of jutsu, thus they cannot use any genjutsu in combat. Because they haven't fully devoted themselves in taijutsu or ninjutsu, they gain an additional basic element and can use up to the 4-5th gate for example. However, when their gates are being released and their physical speed increases so does their speed in using ninjutsu. As such facing a specialist like when their last gate is released often ends up being a deadly experience, as their speed of using ninjutsus is so fast that even a simple 10 cm D-ranked fireball of theirs becomes as fast as a bullet. Using ninjutsu though when the gates are unlocked puts far heavier strains on the body than normal, often making them unable to use ninjutsu for a month before their power returns and in rare cases even destroys their ability to use ninjutsu completely so they only use it as their last resort in combat.
Genjutsu/Ninjutsu specialist: (Getting tired) They focus on these two styles. They can have a limited set amount of genjutsu where they can alter reality with the same mechanics and they can get an additional basic element or some extra chakra.
Genjutsu/Taijutsu specialist: The same combination with ninjutsu-taijutsu though with limited set amount of genjutsu where they can alter reality with the same mechanics with greater speed when using gates. Same risks as well.
Then we have medical nins with other mechanics etc...
Still not sure why metal and magnet are individual elements. Isn't metal earth too? How is it used? Can't magnetic properties be utilised through lightning? Why have two separate elements for it?
DragonKnight- Head RP Moderator
Re: Guide: Elements
by AiKirika Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:30 pm
magnet... i dont like this either... i'd mix that with metal generally
metal is advanced element from earth (and lightning maybe?), the user can control metal, can change its form and their magnetism (if its a ferromagnetic metal).
an opponent who uses metal weapons against a metal elemnt user might really get into some problems fighting him with those.
if a metal element user also has an affinity towards lightning, he can use both elements to a greater strength (maybe limit magnetism for those guys only)
the specialisations look awesome... though im not sure if ppl will actualy make use of this
also it kinda complicates the chakra limit thing that we still havent finished
metal is advanced element from earth (and lightning maybe?), the user can control metal, can change its form and their magnetism (if its a ferromagnetic metal).
an opponent who uses metal weapons against a metal elemnt user might really get into some problems fighting him with those.
if a metal element user also has an affinity towards lightning, he can use both elements to a greater strength (maybe limit magnetism for those guys only)
the specialisations look awesome... though im not sure if ppl will actualy make use of this
also it kinda complicates the chakra limit thing that we still havent finished
AiKirika- Global Moderator
Re: Guide: Elements
by Ryuku Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:32 pm
I actually wanted to add nin specialist and gen specialist but couldn't think of any advantages/disadvantages for them when I updated the post. I really like the idea of changing up chakra pools based on fighting styles. I've made some comments in blue, and will update my post once again with the ideas of yours that I like and I'll propose specific amounts for "extra chakra".DragonKnight wrote:If we are to put specializations like these, we should put them for all types of players, to work more like a class. The one you have now feels like it punishes people more than rewards their playstyle. It should be more like this:
- Specializations:
Jack of all Trades: Proficient in ninjutsu, taijutsu and genjutsu this character leans on using a clever combination of the three to defeat his enemies. He might be considered an average shinobi by some, but his reliance on all three styles have honed his soul to overwhelming amounts. He possesses A*Rank amount of chakra extra where A=20 for example. He must have at least 20% jutsus of each style to be classified as such.
Jack of All Trades sounds a lot better than Generalist. I agree that a jack of all trades should probably have a high chakra pool. Let's scrap the 20% Jutsu in each though, because that is difficult to keep track, and will be difficult to maintain for each character because it will force them to train their Jutsu in a specific order to ensure that they meet the requirement. Let's just give them access to Nin/Gen/Tai without restricting them to percentages of each. If they choose this fighting style, they will use all three anyway. It will work itself out.
Ninjutsu specialist: This type of character focuses on his ninjutsu skills over all else. As such he has had extensive training with the elements and can have an additional advanced or basic element he wants without the need for a bloodline and maybe some extra chakra to go along, less than the jack though.
So...one at AS, one at Genin, and one at Jounin? The extra "advanced or basic" kind of messes with the current element rule that advanced elements can only be gained by bloodline/quests. They will already have the option to choose an advanced element from their bloodline anyway. So I believe we should stick with three elements total, 1 at AS, 1 at Genin, 1 at Jounin. The first may be basic or advanced based on bloodline, and the other two must be basic. Characters would get really overpowered if they could utilize a combination like Crystal, Magnet and Lightning.
Genjutsu specialist: This type of character focuses on his genjutsu abilities more than anything. His reliance on such techniques has crippled his use of ninjutsu techniques and may only use them up to C rank for example while he's unable physically to do any taijutsu. His reliance on these techniques has gifted him with an extraordinary ability. He can at will alter the nature of his genjutsus to become reality. He can use such mechanics on appropriate genjutsu by using A*(Rank of jutsu) chakra extra where A=20 for example.
Genjutsu is suppose to interfere with a person's chakra flow to their brain. Illusions. Distorting senses. Reality is 1000% out of the question for Genjutsu. This mechanic completely destroys the integrity of what a Genjutsu is suppose to be. If Genjutsu becomes reality, it is no longer a Genjutsu by definition and starts to blur the lines between a Genjutsu/Ninjutsu.
Taijutsu specialist: The same as yours
Taijutsu/Ninjutsu Specialist: This type of user has focused extensively on these two styles of jutsu, thus they cannot use any genjutsu in combat. Because they haven't fully devoted themselves in taijutsu or ninjutsu, they gain an additional basic element and can use up to the 4-5th gate for example. However, when their gates are being released and their physical speed increases so does their speed in using ninjutsu. As such facing a specialist like when their last gate is released often ends up being a deadly experience, as their speed of using ninjutsus is so fast that even a simple 10 cm D-ranked fireball of theirs becomes as fast as a bullet. Using ninjutsu though when the gates are unlocked puts far heavier strains on the body than normal, often making them unable to use ninjutsu for a month before their power returns and in rare cases even destroys their ability to use ninjutsu completely so they only use it as their last resort in combat.
Yes to the speed of Ninjutsu being increased. 5 gates is too much. A Tai specialist will likely only use 7 the majority of the time(the 8th will kill them), so they only have a 2 gate advantage. I'd say they have the capability to learn the first three gates. I also don't think they should get an extra element. Leave that for Ninjutsu specialists as their primary advantage. Nin/Tai specialists should get one at AS, and a second one at Chuunin.
Genjutsu/Ninjutsu specialist: (Getting tired) They focus on these two styles. They can have a limited set amount of genjutsu where they can alter reality with the same mechanics and they can get an additional basic element or some extra chakra.
See my last comment on altering reality.
Genjutsu/Taijutsu specialist: The same combination with ninjutsu-taijutsu though with limited set amount of genjutsu where they can alter reality with the same mechanics with greater speed when using gates. Same risks as well.
Then we have medical nins with other mechanics etc...
Still not sure why metal and magnet are individual elements. Isn't metal earth too? How is it used? Can't magnetic properties be utilised through lightning? Why have two separate elements for it?
Metal is different than Earth. Earth generally refers to stone, rocks and the ground when it comes to Naruto. My concept of magnet is creating magnetic forces like push/pull like the Pein deva path. Perhaps the name isn't really a good fit, but I like the concept.
Ryuku- Forum Founder
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Re: Guide: Elements
by AiKirika Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:23 pm
maybe simply create a non-elemental BL with it??Metal is different than Earth. Earth generally refers to stone, rocks and the ground when it comes to Naruto. My concept of magnet is creating magnetic forces like push/pull like the Pein deva path. Perhaps the name isn't really a good fit, but I like the concept.
there are quite some bls in naruto that are non-elemental, for example byakugan and the bone thing kimimaru used
soooooo... ryuku and me had a discussion about specialists...
we came to the conclusion that this might be too complicated... most users will simply try create a char and let it develop by time.
if we have specialists, then it needs to be simple, simple pro-cons, simple limits.
while thinking about this how to implement the gate system into this, i came to a wall..
how does the gates system actually implement itself into our jutsu slots?
does it use up 1 slot for the whole system? or 1 per each gate?
either/or... instead of limiting it completly only to kinda pure taijutsu specalists... why not making it a simple 1 gate per x taijutsu?
for every 3 taijutsu a user has, they can open 1 gate, that way they would need 24 taijutsu for all 8 gates.
or change the numbers that for the low gates, a lower amount of taijutsu are needed and it would go up for the higher gates?
1 for gate 1 and 2, 2 for gate 3 and 4, 3 for gate 5 and 6, 4 for gate 7 and 8 = 20 taijutsu needed for all 8...
or higher numbers (1 for gate 1, 2 for gate 2, 3 for gate 3, etc) or a starting minimum?
something along the lines of this?
AiKirika- Global Moderator
Re: Guide: Elements
by Ryuku Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:21 pm
I'll keep the whole non-elemental magnet/gravity thing in mind. As for the Gates...as they are presently, they do not take up any Jutsu slots. The thing about being able to learn a certain number of gates based on how many Taijutsu you know, is that because you can only learn a maximum of eight Jutsu outside of your speciality, Ninjutsu/Genjutsu would only be able to learn the first two gates (if they had 8 Taijutsu, that's (3 for first gate, 3 first second gate). Not much different from the way it is now, with them being able to learn 1 Gate. Imo, we should stick with the current setup but perhaps give Ninjutsu/Genjutsu specialists the ability to learn the first 2 or 3?AiKirika wrote:maybe simply create a non-elemental BL with it??Metal is different than Earth. Earth generally refers to stone, rocks and the ground when it comes to Naruto. My concept of magnet is creating magnetic forces like push/pull like the Pein deva path. Perhaps the name isn't really a good fit, but I like the concept.
there are quite some bls in naruto that are non-elemental, for example byakugan and the bone thing kimimaru used
soooooo... ryuku and me had a discussion about specialists...
we came to the conclusion that this might be too complicated... most users will simply try create a char and let it develop by time.
if we have specialists, then it needs to be simple, simple pro-cons, simple limits.
while thinking about this how to implement the gate system into this, i came to a wall..
how does the gates system actually implement itself into our jutsu slots?
does it use up 1 slot for the whole system? or 1 per each gate?
either/or... instead of limiting it completly only to kinda pure taijutsu specalists... why not making it a simple 1 gate per x taijutsu?
for every 3 taijutsu a user has, they can open 1 gate, that way they would need 24 taijutsu for all 8 gates.
or change the numbers that for the low gates, a lower amount of taijutsu are needed and it would go up for the higher gates?
1 for gate 1 and 2, 2 for gate 3 and 4, 3 for gate 5 and 6, 4 for gate 7 and 8 = 20 taijutsu needed for all 8...
or higher numbers (1 for gate 1, 2 for gate 2, 3 for gate 3, etc) or a starting minimum?
something along the lines of this?
Ryuku- Forum Founder
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Re: Guide: Elements
by AiKirika Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:52 pm
this idea was to generally get away from the specialists idea...
of course one would need to be a specialist in a sense to learn all... but would be bound to another thing
if you generalize that only a tai specs can use all gates... then you would need to set limits as to when (rank or other) one would be able to use which gate, ... by connecting it to the amount of taijutsu this would be needless
also since after jounin you can gain more slots, evetually also nin/gen users would be able to learn a few more gates if they like to train more taijutsu, and taijutsu users would be able to learn more nin/gen jutsu
of course one would need to be a specialist in a sense to learn all... but would be bound to another thing
if you generalize that only a tai specs can use all gates... then you would need to set limits as to when (rank or other) one would be able to use which gate, ... by connecting it to the amount of taijutsu this would be needless
also since after jounin you can gain more slots, evetually also nin/gen users would be able to learn a few more gates if they like to train more taijutsu, and taijutsu users would be able to learn more nin/gen jutsu
AiKirika- Global Moderator
Re: Guide: Elements
by Ryuku Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:05 pm
We already do have rank limits for the Gates posted in the eight gates guide, though those are up for discussion. I'd much rather connect the capability of gates a person can learn to whatever rank they are than how many Taijutsu they know, but gate learning capability I'm a bit more open too. I'm not sure that anyone outside of the Tai specialty should be able to go past the 3rd gate. That's probably too generous, since in the anime outside of Lee/Gai, Kakashi is the only one who uses the gates and he is only able to open up one despite being a well rounded, high level Jounin. (there is one more gate user in the movies, but that's non-canon)AiKirika wrote:this idea was to generally get away from the specialists idea...
of course one would need to be a specialist in a sense to learn all... but would be bound to another thing
if you generalize that only a tai specs can use all gates... then you would need to set limits as to when (rank or other) one would be able to use which gate, ... by connecting it to the amount of taijutsu this would be needless
also since after jounin you can gain more slots, evetually also nin/gen users would be able to learn a few more gates if they like to train more taijutsu, and taijutsu users would be able to learn more nin/gen jutsu
If we want to give people the ability to learn more outside of the specialty, we should just change the amount you can learn outside of it. We could change it to 10 so that people aren't so limited, and that would allow them to kind of create their own specialties as they go. That way people could have say:
Character 1: Eventually ends up with 15 Ninjutsu and 8 Taijutsu, and 2 Genjutsu (This would be the Nin/Tai user we had in mind with the complicated specialties)
Character 2: Eventually ends up with 15 Ninjutsu, 5 Taijutsu, and 5 Genjutsu. (This would be closer to the jack of all trades, though clearly with a focus in ninjutsu)
Character 3: Eventually ends up with 21 Ninjutsu, 2 Taijutsu, 2 Genjutsu (This would be what we envisioned as Nin specialist)
Should we do that? We could even change it to 12.
Ryuku- Forum Founder
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Re: Guide: Elements
by AiKirika Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:58 pm
the problem i see here (i kinda already stated that before) that with specs like this one would need to decide beforehand what kind of char they want to have.
what if someone decides becoming a taijutsu spec but after a while notices he cant come up with more taijutsu at all... then decides to switch. and what if its the other way round?
didnt we always say that we wanted to limit the users as less as possible?
since we also have a (theoretically) limitless amount of jutsu one can obtain, having a set in stone number what kind of jutsu one can learn outside their spec would be limiting creativity.
if we go by percentage... say: per x spec jutsu one can learn 1 non-spec jutsu... would be a bit of a more free way to handle this.
then again this doesnt really solve the situation of someone who doesnt like their spec anymore and wants to switch.
example: say the relation was 2 spec to 1 non-spec (im being generous)
Char 1: chuunin, ninjutsu is his spec, after learning 10 ninjutsu he decide to become a tai spec and get those gates done. he would need 20 tai jutsu before he can be regarded as tai spec and gets access to all gates (higher than gate 3).
Char 2: chuunin, nin-spec, decides after 15 ninjutsu that he wants to become a tai-spec, he would need 30 jutsu to become a tai-spec.
both chars are chuunin, char 2 was a bit faster at creating his jutsu. if both chars started out at the same time and decided at the same time, why would one need more time than the other
of course if we had a system like i suggested, 1 gate per x tai jutsu, lets say 1 gate per 3 tai jutsu (we can always change the numbers)
char 1 would have to learn 24 jutsu to get all gates, 4 more,
but char 2 also had to learn 24, which in his case would be less.
but both would be able to learn some inbetween-gates (higher than gate 3) .... even before becoming a tai spec in that other system
i hope you see the problematic here
you know i like to provide the point of view of a normal user
btw... i kinda feel the need to go by percentage for BL jutsu ö.ö
since we have unlimited jutsu
what if someone decides becoming a taijutsu spec but after a while notices he cant come up with more taijutsu at all... then decides to switch. and what if its the other way round?
didnt we always say that we wanted to limit the users as less as possible?
since we also have a (theoretically) limitless amount of jutsu one can obtain, having a set in stone number what kind of jutsu one can learn outside their spec would be limiting creativity.
if we go by percentage... say: per x spec jutsu one can learn 1 non-spec jutsu... would be a bit of a more free way to handle this.
then again this doesnt really solve the situation of someone who doesnt like their spec anymore and wants to switch.
example: say the relation was 2 spec to 1 non-spec (im being generous)
Char 1: chuunin, ninjutsu is his spec, after learning 10 ninjutsu he decide to become a tai spec and get those gates done. he would need 20 tai jutsu before he can be regarded as tai spec and gets access to all gates (higher than gate 3).
Char 2: chuunin, nin-spec, decides after 15 ninjutsu that he wants to become a tai-spec, he would need 30 jutsu to become a tai-spec.
both chars are chuunin, char 2 was a bit faster at creating his jutsu. if both chars started out at the same time and decided at the same time, why would one need more time than the other
of course if we had a system like i suggested, 1 gate per x tai jutsu, lets say 1 gate per 3 tai jutsu (we can always change the numbers)
char 1 would have to learn 24 jutsu to get all gates, 4 more,
but char 2 also had to learn 24, which in his case would be less.
but both would be able to learn some inbetween-gates (higher than gate 3) .... even before becoming a tai spec in that other system
i hope you see the problematic here
you know i like to provide the point of view of a normal user
btw... i kinda feel the need to go by percentage for BL jutsu ö.ö
since we have unlimited jutsu
AiKirika- Global Moderator
Re: Guide: Elements
by Ryuku Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:36 pm
I don't think that scenario is likely to happen. People should think before creating their character. I see the problem that you are talking about, but at the same time...I'm kind of iffy on the idea of linking gates to amount of Taijutsu learned. Would people really grasp the concept?AiKirika wrote:the problem i see here (i kinda already stated that before) that with specs like this one would need to decide beforehand what kind of char they want to have.
what if someone decides becoming a taijutsu spec but after a while notices he cant come up with more taijutsu at all... then decides to switch. and what if its the other way round?
didnt we always say that we wanted to limit the users as less as possible?
since we also have a (theoretically) limitless amount of jutsu one can obtain, having a set in stone number what kind of jutsu one can learn outside their spec would be limiting creativity.
if we go by percentage... say: per x spec jutsu one can learn 1 non-spec jutsu... would be a bit of a more free way to handle this.
then again this doesnt really solve the situation of someone who doesnt like their spec anymore and wants to switch.
example: say the relation was 2 spec to 1 non-spec (im being generous)
Char 1: chuunin, ninjutsu is his spec, after learning 10 ninjutsu he decide to become a tai spec and get those gates done. he would need 20 tai jutsu before he can be regarded as tai spec and gets access to all gates (higher than gate 3).
Char 2: chuunin, nin-spec, decides after 15 ninjutsu that he wants to become a tai-spec, he would need 30 jutsu to become a tai-spec.
both chars are chuunin, char 2 was a bit faster at creating his jutsu. if both chars started out at the same time and decided at the same time, why would one need more time than the other
of course if we had a system like i suggested, 1 gate per x tai jutsu, lets say 1 gate per 3 tai jutsu (we can always change the numbers)
char 1 would have to learn 24 jutsu to get all gates, 4 more,
but char 2 also had to learn 24, which in his case would be less.
but both would be able to learn some inbetween-gates (higher than gate 3) .... even before becoming a tai spec in that other system
i hope you see the problematic here
you know i like to provide the point of view of a normal user
btw... i kinda feel the need to go by percentage for BL jutsu ö.ö
since we have unlimited jutsu
If we do go with this idea, and one gate can be learned for every 3 Taijutsu, I'd still like to keep the specialty rules(maximum of 10 or 12 jutsu outside of specialty total). That way someone who learns 10 Ninjutsu and no longer wants to focus on Ninjutsu can eventually learn (24) Taijutsu to be able to learn all 8 gates. Although it would take them longer, since they would have to add 9 additonal Jutsu through the "after 1 month and 2 RPs method". There has to be a penalty/downside to deciding to switch in the middle. These types of cases will probably be extremely rare.
No to percentages for Bloodline Jutsu. Bloodlines should have a set amount of, and no more. Percentages complicate things and I don't believe people should be able to learn additional Bloodline Jutsu just because they have reached the Jutsu slot limit. Bloodline Jutsu in the anime are all set in stone. The Byakugan for example, has certain jutsu that are available for Byakugan users if they manage to fulfill the requirements to get to that point. Bloodline Jutsu should be the same way.
Ryuku- Forum Founder
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Re: Guide: Elements
by AiKirika Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:11 pm
good pointNo to percentages for Bloodline Jutsu. Bloodlines should have a set amount of, and no more. Percentages complicate things and I don't believe people should be able to learn additional Bloodline Jutsu just because they have reached the Jutsu slot limit. Bloodline Jutsu in the anime are all set in stone. The Byakugan for example, has certain jutsu that are available for Byakugan users if they manage to fulfill the requirements to get to that point. Bloodline Jutsu should be the same way.
i agree
for the rest...
if the limit of non-specs is higher it gives ppl more time to decide what they actually want to be... i'd agree to that ö.ö
so..... what would actually be the pro-cons for specializing?
for taijutsu specs its the gate system... what about the others?
wouldnt it get too complicated again?
do we even need other specs than tai?
ö-ö
AiKirika- Global Moderator
Re: Guide: Elements
by Ryuku Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:27 pm
Based upon what we have agreed upon so far, there really aren't many pros/cons. A specialist can only have 12 Jutsu outside of his specialty. This means a Jounin Ninjutsu specialist who has learned 25 Jutsu will always have more ninjutsu(13) than any other type. And 1 gate can be learned for every Taijutsu. Essentially the the main advantage of specializing in something is that you aren't limited to how many Jutsu of that type you can learn. A Nin specialist could learn 25 Ninjutsu if they wanted to. In contrast, the disadvantage would be that they are limited in the number of Non-specialty Jutsu they can learn until they get to the point where they can learn additional Jutsu after a month.AiKirika wrote:good pointNo to percentages for Bloodline Jutsu. Bloodlines should have a set amount of, and no more. Percentages complicate things and I don't believe people should be able to learn additional Bloodline Jutsu just because they have reached the Jutsu slot limit. Bloodline Jutsu in the anime are all set in stone. The Byakugan for example, has certain jutsu that are available for Byakugan users if they manage to fulfill the requirements to get to that point. Bloodline Jutsu should be the same way.
i agree
for the rest...
if the limit of non-specs is higher it gives ppl more time to decide what they actually want to be... i'd agree to that ö.ö
so..... what would actually be the pro-cons for specializing?
for taijutsu specs its the gate system... what about the others?
wouldnt it get too complicated again?
do we even need other specs than tai?
ö-ö
I'm satisfied with that. Not too complicated, but still balanced.
Ryuku- Forum Founder
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Re: Guide: Elements
by DragonKnight Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:48 am
Confused from your posts. Could you make a summary? You decided to scrap it again, right? My specializations was only an example. I think that the specializations should be more rewarding than limiting, if limiting at all.
Proposal: we install some specializations but they only become active when they become chuunin to give them time to develop their character how they want, if our specializations are limiting. If they aren't, then we assign them when they become jounin with the specializations mostly giving them battle and rp mechanics to play with based on how they developed their character. Kiri, if they want to change their character that much, then they can just make another character, but this time we let them rank up faster?
Proposal: we install some specializations but they only become active when they become chuunin to give them time to develop their character how they want, if our specializations are limiting. If they aren't, then we assign them when they become jounin with the specializations mostly giving them battle and rp mechanics to play with based on how they developed their character. Kiri, if they want to change their character that much, then they can just make another character, but this time we let them rank up faster?
DragonKnight- Head RP Moderator
Re: Guide: Elements
by Ryuku Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:14 pm
We did decide to scrap it, because we realized that this kind of detail is really better served for an actual game, which I am adamant about. On the old RP section people just made a character and got straight to sparring/missions. This would be an excellent idea for TNR, perhaps...but not for here. The proposed idea here has too many question marks that will complicate things. How will a specialization become active at Chuunin, if prior to that they won't be required to adhere to the limitations of their specialization? What if someone who learned entirely Ninjutsu suddenly decides he wants to become a Taijutsu specialist? If we assign them at Jounin, they will become useless because I don't envision too many people even -becoming- Jounin. If we let someone change their character, how "fast" do we let them rank up? In what ways would we speed up their ranking up? Would we alter their requirements? If so, specifically how do we alter their requirements? Do we alter them on a case by case by basis, or do we write up a thread with specific changes for a second character? How is "fast" measured? In time? Or in number of RPs completed? These are the questions we have to be asking when adding new aspects/features in.DragonKnight wrote:Confused from your posts. Could you make a summary? You decided to scrap it again, right? My specializations was only an example. I think that the specializations should be more rewarding than limiting, if limiting at all.
Proposal: we install some specializations but they only become active when they become chuunin to give them time to develop their character how they want, if our specializations are limiting. If they aren't, then we assign them when they become jounin with the specializations mostly giving them battle and rp mechanics to play with based on how they developed their character. Kiri, if they want to change their character that much, then they can just make another character, but this time we let them rank up faster?
Specializations should be simple, and should be chosen at Genin at the latest. At Academy Student level they will only have 2 Jutsu outside of their basics, and thus they will not break any of the limitations of any specialization. That will give people who can't make up their mind immediately time to think about what type of character they want. But we can't, and shouldn't base our structure based upon "what if?" scenarios. They make things more difficult for everybody.
Summary: Specializations should not become anymore complicated. A specialist can only have 12 Jutsu outside of his specialty. This means a Jounin Ninjutsu specialist who has learned 25 Jutsu will always have more ninjutsu(13) than any other type. One gate can be learned for every 3 Taijutsu. The main advantage of specializing in something is that you aren't limited to how many Jutsu of that type you can learn. A Nin specialist could learn 25 Ninjutsu if they wanted to. In contrast, the disadvantage would be that they are limited in the number of Non-specialty Jutsu they can learn until they get to the point where they can learn additional Jutsu after a month. Linking # of gates with Taijutsu learned allows more variety, and doesn't limit the gates to one specialty. Specializations should be chosen at Academy Student or Genin.
Ryuku- Forum Founder
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Re: Guide: Elements
by DragonKnight Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:32 pm
The questions you typed and the ones we'd answer are very few. Don't make them seem like endless, it's a persuasion tactic that doesn't really work well when I can take my time reading them. If you disagree with them, post a logical argument, than throw the ball back at me.
Yeah, but how would your basic specializations even look like? Would they have any functionality at all? I doubt it. If they don't, then they're not an alternative.
Yeah, but how would your basic specializations even look like? Would they have any functionality at all? I doubt it. If they don't, then they're not an alternative.
DragonKnight- Head RP Moderator
Re: Guide: Elements
by Ryuku Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:43 pm
This is still my response. took out the questions for your viewing pleasure.Ryuku wrote:We did decide to scrap it, because we realized that this kind of detail is really better served for an actual game, which I am adamant about. On the old RP section people just made a character and got straight to sparring/missions. This would be an excellent idea for TNR, perhaps...but not for here.
Specializations should be simple, and should be chosen at Genin at the latest. At Academy Student level they will only have 2 Jutsu outside of their basics, and thus they will not break any of the limitations of any specialization. That will give people who can't make up their mind immediately time to think about what type of character they want. But we can't, and shouldn't base our structure based upon "what if?" scenarios. They make things more difficult for everybody.
Summary: Specializations should not become anymore complicated. A specialist can only have 12 Jutsu outside of his specialty. This means a Jounin Ninjutsu specialist who has learned 25 Jutsu will always have more ninjutsu(13) than any other type. One gate can be learned for every 3 Taijutsu. The main advantage of specializing in something is that you aren't limited to how many Jutsu of that type you can learn. A Nin specialist could learn 25 Ninjutsu if they wanted to. In contrast, the disadvantage would be that they are limited in the number of Non-specialty Jutsu they can learn until they get to the point where they can learn additional Jutsu after a month. Linking # of gates with Taijutsu learned allows more variety, and doesn't limit the gates to one specialty. Specializations should be chosen at Academy Student or Genin.
Ryuku- Forum Founder
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Re: Guide: Elements
by DragonKnight Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:19 pm
You say you scrapped the specializations, but then you explain that u didn't scrap them but reduced them to sth less complicated? And my question remains, what purpose do those specializations serve?
DragonKnight- Head RP Moderator
Re: Guide: Elements
by Ryuku Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:56 pm
We crapped the complicated version. Basically as is, specializations just indicate what Jutsu type you focus on, and limits the type of non-specialty Jutsu you can have.
If you choose Nin, you aren't limited to a certain number of Ninjutsu you can learn, but you aren't limited in the total number of Tai/Gen you can learn.
If you choose Nin, you aren't limited to a certain number of Ninjutsu you can learn, but you aren't limited in the total number of Tai/Gen you can learn.
Ryuku- Forum Founder
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Re: Guide: Elements
by AiKirika Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:05 pm
to answer to what i read here:
ryuku... dk is right about his question of purpose
if a specialisation only has a disadvantage... but no advantage then specialisations are useless - "they are free to learn as many spec jutsus as they want" is not an advantage, if there was no specialisations at all they would be able to do that anyway.
again... there MUST be an advantage to a specialisation... otherwise why would someone choose one at all? to ge limited? i bet not!
also i dont like having users to choose a specialisation as a must... i want to to create their char freely... and only if they want, take a specialisation route or non at all.
if specs have actual advantages... then we can implement limitations... even tight ones, but the advantages must be worth it
to our talk yesterday:
seems my thoughts came across...
though im not sure yet if we just scrap them until we think of some suitable advantage or we do that completely.... or did it misunderstood something and we dont scrap it at all?
ryuku... dk is right about his question of purpose
if a specialisation only has a disadvantage... but no advantage then specialisations are useless - "they are free to learn as many spec jutsus as they want" is not an advantage, if there was no specialisations at all they would be able to do that anyway.
again... there MUST be an advantage to a specialisation... otherwise why would someone choose one at all? to ge limited? i bet not!
also i dont like having users to choose a specialisation as a must... i want to to create their char freely... and only if they want, take a specialisation route or non at all.
if specs have actual advantages... then we can implement limitations... even tight ones, but the advantages must be worth it
to our talk yesterday:
seems my thoughts came across...
though im not sure yet if we just scrap them until we think of some suitable advantage or we do that completely.... or did it misunderstood something and we dont scrap it at all?
AiKirika- Global Moderator
Re: Guide: Elements
by Ryuku Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:16 pm
This whole discussion between me and DK took place before we talked yesterday in the chat. From the FB chat:
"I think things will work themselves out. those who want to focus on nin will have more ninjutsu, and those who want to use the gates will have more taijutsu. If you think of good pros/cons for specializations that aren't complicated, maybe we can readd them. For now I took them off"
That's what we agreed to.
"I think things will work themselves out. those who want to focus on nin will have more ninjutsu, and those who want to use the gates will have more taijutsu. If you think of good pros/cons for specializations that aren't complicated, maybe we can readd them. For now I took them off"
That's what we agreed to.
Ryuku- Forum Founder
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Re: Guide: Elements
by AiKirika Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:31 pm
ok thats what i understood... just wanted to make sure ^^
AiKirika- Global Moderator
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